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[parambyte]

this may not be very important, because after all its the look of the image that matters, but i was very disappointed to see the new Arri AEV, AEV Plus and AOV range of cameras that have bodies that look like typical DigiBeta cameras (at least in their silhouettes).

One thing I loved about the D21 (again I stress, camera body looks are not as important as the image they record) was the way it looks. So close to my beloved film camera series.

Arri, are you listeting?

[Marc]

We are listening. The new cameras are designed to work as best as possible on a tripod and on the shoulder, while also being affordable.

[giganova]

I have to agree. Even though I am very excited about the new Alexa cameras and consider getting one next summer, they are the most conservatively looking cameras I have seen in years. Just a big black box. What happened to industrial design?  I think ARRI missed a huge opportunity to stay ahead of their competitors in this area.

On a related note: How much do the bodies weight?

[Ryan Patrick OHara]

Are you kidding? Arri has proven itself time and time again, the master of camera design. The 235, 435, and 416 are cameras of exquisite design. Sure the D-21's aren't as sleek in profile as say a 235, but to say it was designed poorly is inaccurate. Look at the 'competition'... Genesis, Red (One, Epic, take the pic), etc... are not any more ergonomically sound, or at least not objectively.

I see nothing thus far, within the Arri design, which is an obvious detriment to operation. It seems that with the right shoulder rig or pistol grips, an operator can have the same handheld feel and operation as say a 435.

Any complaints about the 'look' of the body without regards to the camera operation are strange to me. IMHO, the camera looks good!

[Cinematographer]

Yes....the Industrial Design is under the level of previous arri  camera Systems...

[jonathan]

Marc,

Thanks for listening.  Having shot with competitor cameras for non-fiction films over the past couple years I have to say that I have been less than impressed with the ergonomics of the competitor cameras.  Point in fact, after a few days shooting I felt like the teamsters had taken me behind a truck and beat the living sh*t out of me.

The SR remains one of my favorite cameras to date because of it's ergonomics.  Hopefully this new camera can, like the SR, be used in handheld configurations for extended periods without killing the operator.

Having the lens in plane with the operator's eye is also very nice when shooting handheld as it keeps the eye from fatiguing as quickly.  On the other camera system I found my left eye as far as 3" out of plane with the optical center of the lens making extended shooting difficult as it induced headaches if I shot with both eyes open.  Hopefully this is in your design considerations as well.

Regards,

J

[jonathan]

I should also note that the stability of the mount is a very serious concern for those of us who have been shooting with competitor systems these past couple years.

[Marc]

Yes, position of eye to lens has also been considered. As well as position of lens to camera bottom - the closer the lens is to the camera bottom, the easier it is to get low shots. We learned this one with the 235, which has less housing under the lens axis than previous film cameras.

And the viewfinder mounting bracket is very robust. You could hang the whole camera with zoom lens off the viewfinder mounting bracket. Not that you would ever do such a foolish thing,...

[irmeli]

the very sober albeit a bit boxy design is starting to grow on me - although we'd love to give a shot at redesigning you electronic viewfinder (keeping all internal components the way they are) 

[Emmanuel]

So far the design looks alright, I like that it's smaller than the D 20.  I'm wondering about the storage and how it will attach to the camera.  I hope that it will be neat and compact and not awkward. 

[jonathan]

Honestly I'd be much more inclined to warm up the Visa card on some of these new generation digital cameras if they were in the form of the 435.  The board traces can be designed to fit any form factor within reason, I don't know why we have to take a step backwards in ergonomics and design just because we're going digital.

Now that we're doing more 3D the size of the cameras is a MAJOR concern.  Keeping the weight compact and centralized is key.

Hopefully the next generation will not look like a 20 year old betacam.

[jonathan]

As I just read this elsewhere today I thought I'd paste it here as it seems relevant to the discussion:

"The ergonomics and operational design of a number of digital cameras is IMO often hopeless and worthy of significant criticism. It's like the lessons learnt over the 100years of building cameras has been forgotten in the transition to the digital age."  sic.

[orenarad]

I for one don't think ARRI neglected the ergonomic side of the Alexa because it doesn't reassemble a film camera.
I for one don't find the 435 very ergonomic. We're just used to it so much. It's heavy, its front heavy on the shoulder and it weighs left holding the handle, and not to mention the big bulge on the top…
(so it'll be clear – the 435 is my favorite camera of all times – it's an engineering marvel)

Designing a film camera calls for different considerations from a digital camera. ARRI film cameras are designed in such a way that they are very comfortable to work with while allowing a complicated system of film transport to work inside. All of that dictates the way they look.
Digital cameras don’t have film transport so they shouldn’t look like film cameras. Digital cameras are powerful computers that need lots of COOLING!!!! That dictates they way they look.
Personally I think film cameras are more limiting to design ergonomically and ARRI did that back in the seventies – there will never be a more ergonomic film camera than the 35BL… I believe that the absence of film transport allows for much more freedom of design (for good or bad e.g. RED).
I haven't seen the Alexa yet but I must admit that by the photos published it seem to me that although lacking the sexy curves of the 235, they are pretty comfortable to use…. 

Cheers,
Oren

[jonathan]

Oren,

I too like the 235. 

Having attended the recent competitor event in LA I will say I heard a lot of complaints about their new camera's ergos.  I hope Arri is listening.  CML has been aflame with ergonomic threads since the competitor's showed their new camera. 

I hope Arri won't disregard these concerns and take many more years before finding an Aaton or 235 like shape fir the new digital cinema cameras. 

J

[jonathan]

Saw some images of the new camera from Palm Springs and I have to say the camera is smaller than I anticipated.  It looks great.  Based on what I saw I'm pretty sure it will be both balanced and comfortable.  It won't be a 235, but I think it's really been pretty well thought out.

I'd love to have it in a kidney shape form factor, but this is pretty darn good for a field portable camera.  I;d love to know the weight of the body.

Jonathan